Episode 240: Optics

Salty & Spice talk about optics.

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spk_0:   0:00
Hello, everybody.

spk_1:   0:02
Good day, everybody. Welcome to the show. The big show. The largest and most popular and most in podcast that is recorded in our car. And we're on the road again where hidden actually pointed toward home at the moment. We have a little time to spend with you today, and we're gonna talk about a subject that is Excuse me. Near and dear to our eyeballs. I will see what your near and dear to our eyeballs. So a brief discussion today on Excuse me. Sorry about that. The pros and the cons of optics on your firearm. We are two people who wear glasses. Like a lot of older people in America, because we're not young. Like a lot of older people in America. We wear glasses. Now, let me tell you, I want to talk to an ophthalmologist. He said there are two kinds of people over the age of 45. Those who need glasses and those who need what glasses but lie about the fact and say they don't need glasses. Those two kinds of people,

spk_0:   1:29
the lens of the eye continues to grow throughout life at the time. You're in the last half. It's grown so big that you just can't round up enough to let you focus on things close to your face.

spk_1:   1:41
So this makes optics and a gun for older people a little bit different than optics for a gun and younger people, cause not only for older people do you have to be able to look through a scope. Everything still needs to be. No matter what distance you're looking at, the scope is close to you. Well, it's magnifying an image that's far away, so you have to keep that in mind. Eso There's various different, different caveats to this we, however, our optics people four hour personal protection car beans. We have a tech Hola. Graphic sites. Now they're not red dot sites. A lot of people call a holographic sight in a red. That site A consider them synonyms, they're not. And I'm not gonna go into the huge amount of details of the fact that hologram excites are actually, in my opinion, much better then a red dot site because they're your much the IRA Lee from the amount of ability of keeping the holographic sight exactly on target. No matter which angle you're shooting from with your eye is higher than with the red dot

spk_0:   3:10
If you guys got in just the right place with a red dot Either your aim is off or you don't see the red. Not

spk_1:   3:16
at all. Right now the better red dots do a lot better job, Christos Parallax corrected. And what that means is you move your eye around the red dot states Pretty much on target. Theoretically, we've just found the whole graphic sites to be more accurate. I shoot better with him now. The deed sites that we use on our car beans and we both are personal protection car beans. We use the tub or x 95 bull pups. And the reason we do we use holographic sites Almost read. The reason we use holographic sites is because of the role that that gun has in our situation. A holographic look. It was just a a neo tech. You don't know what one of those is Good clip or ducked up. Go it if you actually better. Um, it gives you the ability to use both eyes and look through with both eyes and keep your eyes aware. It gives you that quick target acquisition because it does not magnify

spk_0:   4:33
meaning. You can look through the scope with your right eye and keep your left eye open. So you're much more aware of the periphery of what's going on around your target,

spk_1:   4:43
right? And you could you could switch from right hand shooting. The left hand is shooting right. I'd shooting two left. I'd shooting if you have to. And it's just very easy to d'oh. Since there's no magnification know, most of these red dots sites and holographic sites do not have built in magnification. Okay, you have that type of site, then you also have other types of optics. Obviously, you have scopes, and then you have various different power scopes. The 1 to 4 scope is a common scope on the self defense car beans. I'm not gonna I'm not really gonna go into hunting rifles because that's kind of a different thing entirely. You know, most hunting rifles are scoped because most hunting rifles you, that's you're not trying to get fast acquisition.

spk_0:   5:39
The trade off, in case you're not aware of it, is the greater the magnification is, the easier it is to see your target and place your shot once you're pointed at basically the right spot. But the harder it is to find that basic right spot to start with.

spk_1:   5:56
Exactly. So you know, another common scope is the 1 to 9 scope are two denying I've seen both and those air scopes that allow you to crank up the power as you need for making the target big enough to see Now there's all kinds of all kinds of things behind getting scopes and optics for your for your firearm. This is not going to be about how to choose a proper scope for your pirate. This is not going to be how to mount a scope properly. This is not gonna be be about how to get the right eye relief for your scope, other than to say, don't crowd your scope with your eye is a really good way to get a cut face. Because recoil Yeah, because I saw a guy after I still feel bad about this about five years old. Old farmer guy. I know the guy has been deer hunt for ever, right? Yes, I'm out there and he just got a new gun and he had the scope matter way too far back, and he's crowding up against its three away. He's crowding up against it. I almost said, No, no, stop. You do not want to do that But I didn't because I did not feel that it was my place. If it had been arranged safety issue, I would have. And I'm just sitting there debating when you just hunker down, pulls the trigger. And, of course, you know, he splits his eyebrow and I just kind of cringe and say OK,

spk_0:   7:51
as the scope comes back and ridge of the eye,

spk_1:   7:54
kid, you're just an idiot. I call myself Kid, you're just an idiot. You should have said something and I probably should have, and I feel bad about that. To this day, I remember not having said anything. Sometimes it's

spk_0:   8:09
hard to step up and try and correct somebody who's wailed with your

spk_1:   8:14
Yeah, it's got a seven year old

spk_0:   8:15
man. He's been shooting a lot longer than you have. Yeah, so I put a felt same restraint,

spk_1:   8:22
but anyway, watch that. Okay, Just be careful. Now the real question becomes Do you go with an optic, or do you run it with iron sights. And if you go with an optic, do you have iron sights? His backups? And did you This is this is kind of a personal choice, but to me, I run an optic on each of ours, and we keep them the same. And we have the support iron sights built into the gun. So, you know, just pop up iron sights are built into part of the platform, which I really like you. When we had the air platforms, as are her main platform. We use backup iron sights that were side mounted. You turned out slightly sideways in 45 degree. They worked fine.

spk_0:   9:21
So normally a shot through the scope. But if something bad happened to scope or whatever, you could rotate the rifle a little bit and still use the iron sights accurately.

spk_1:   9:31
Right now we have these video text there. There are quick release. We have the quick release versions. They do a pretty good job of holding zero after you. Quick release. If you put him right back in the same spot. And the good news is you could get him pretty close to being on the paper. Actually excited in one of them this last week. I haven't even talked about this. I got it pretty close by putting. Should have been on the paper.

spk_0:   10:01
You want

spk_1:   10:01
to get on the iron sight? You know, the EOE Tech holographic co located with the iron sight, which means that the dot of the EOE tech is right on the aim point of the iron sights. So if the iron sights are even ballpark close, which hadn't tried, then the gun should have put it on the paper. So I didn't put it on the paper. You recited it.

spk_0:   10:27
It would have put it on the paper even if it was just a seven by seven paper.

spk_1:   10:32
Okay, so it's pretty close.

spk_0:   10:34
I was using a big one because I do inciting in. But I didn't need it,

spk_1:   10:37
Do you? Did you started a 25 yards? 15? Yeah, it's a you never know with these things that God has just never been never been fired before. So it's the first part of it.

spk_0:   10:47
Yeah, I always started really short. What? I'm sighting in because that way I don't I don't use a spotting scope. I like to go down and see where I am. And Mark the ones of hit so I don't have to do is much walking back and forth while I'm still pretty far off. Then when it's close there, I'll start moving it out. Fine tuning.

spk_1:   11:09
I personally don't like any magnification on a fast acquisition type gun bars with then four X, I think one of the best if you're gonna go with a actual optic scope optic on it, I think to me the best that I've ever seen is tthe e a cog, the tragic on a cog four x. I love that scope. I love it to death, but a $1500 apiece. I don't own that scope. I have to admit that the solution that we came up with, I like of the attack and then we have a magnifier. Now I've got to admit we just this. We haven't had this magnifier very long. It's a six hour Juliet magnifier. There's all kinds of different magnifier is out there in all different price ring, just starting from I mean, the cheap, cheap, cheap ones. I think there's UT G makes one really, really cheap in, and that there's the next level up, which is like the Four Tax, which is I don't know. I have two minds about the board tax. I like it. They don't like it. And then the next level up pricewise. Anyway, another jump. Another $100. You get into the six hour the six hour Juliet for X, which is what we got. And then you could go the next level up above that which gets you into the attack. And I see no advantage of the E attack over the six hour Juliet I've looked through. Both not shot through, but look to both.

spk_0:   12:59
What's the rough pricing? Each

spk_1:   13:01
the cheap, cheap, cheapest one you'll play about $100 for anything that could even work. The vortex is gonna be out $200. The Juliette's like 320 and the e o Tech is 500. So, you know, for ex Magnifier for $500. And really, it's just no more beefy than the six hour I really like to say I like it a lot. It's very clear now. The problem I have of the vortex isn't that it is clear it isn't that it's well isn't well made. It's both. It's a good looking on optic. The problem with it is it's one of those that swings out of the way. Okay. And like our six hour Juliet and like the, uh oh, Tech, it swings to the right. You just grab it pulled to the right. So do you get it out of the way? It goes over to the right. What that means is you still have both I acquisition if you're right handed shooter. You're right. I was looking through the holographic sight, and your left eye is free to row.

spk_0:   14:11
You don't leave your purple.

spk_1:   14:12
We don't lose your perp. Yeah, You lose your peripheral vision. You know, as much were asked for some reason, and I don't know why Vortex has the move out of the way thing to the left. So for our right handed shooter, the optics that's out of the way now now blocks their left. Hi. And you should be shooting with with your dominant eye, you know, and most right hand shooters. I have right. Domine eyes. I don't know what air you write. Nominate

spk_0:   14:48
my very much left eye. Dominant.

spk_1:   14:50
Okay, well, but do you don't shoot with your left eye, though. No. Well, she doesn't like me

spk_0:   14:55
that way. Someone ambidextrous.

spk_1:   14:57
She's a left. Even the throws right, kicks right, battered right, you know, because that's what

spk_0:   15:04
I love Lefty, who had a bunch of right handed older brothers teaching her sports and shooting for that matter. So since I was kind of ambidextrous to start with those kind of skills I picked up the way they model them for me. But I can tell you why they swing it over, or at least potentially why they swing it over to that side. If you are left eye dominant, you it gets tiring to try and focus through the right eye. When your left eye is very much the dominant eye, it's difficult to do, and it's better not to squint. One eye closed when you shoot, so it's tough. If you know you're trying to look down range and there's something in the way of your left eye, your brain will pay attention to your right. I must much more easily so I don't find it a problem with the EOE Tech. That's one of the things I like about. It is I can easily use the attack with my right eye, even though my left eye's very much dominant while keeping my left eye open and being somewhat aware of it. But it's actually easier to look through a scope with your right eye when your left eye dominant. If there's something very uninteresting in front of that left eye, your brain doesn't get distracted. It knows which I like better.

spk_1:   16:21
Here's an interesting thing about the attacks that we have, where we have the text of the same model, the same everything. But they are slightly different. The EOE check that she has on her turf war has a, uh, single dot in the middle, surrounded by much larger circle Theo Tech that I have on mine. And I got this one not necessary because I wanted the extra feature, but because, frankly, I got it $150 cheaper because the person you special ordered it end up not taking it, and they wanted to get rid of it. So here's a few hours. I'll take it. It has two dots, one below the other, and basically it's 100 yards. The 2nd 100 yard rain Dutch. So he's like this like this in at 100 yards and then the next shot down is the drop and it's very close for between 102 100 yards. That's what that second thing is for. So if you're an extra 100 yards out, you just raise it up. Now when you're looking just looking through the the optic, it's not really all that obvious. It just looks like one big dot down towards the bottom. You could tell it's two dots, but it just looks like a very low resolution. One too hot. But when you pop the magnifier over it because very obvious and it becomes a really nice tool because you could clearly get it, you get a lot of definition there. The resolution of the magnifier is really good both close and far away, which I think is just really, really cool. Are particularly the magnifier really a cool piece of equipment. So downside of the magnifier? Well, it adds 12 ounces 10 300 bucks what he looks and 320 box. But if you use it that I'm not really that worried about the money, but because a good scope is gonna cost you, buddy Um I like the magnifier blood

spk_0:   18:34
and asked him to get the magnifier for mine. Not because I didn't like it on his when I was citing his in because I did like it. But because one, I don't think I really if I actually need this weapon to do this mission this'll weapons mission, which, frankly, I doubt. But again, it's insurance policy. So it's there. If I need that, I'm probably not gonna be shooting anything that far away If it's that far away, I don't need to shoot it in that mission because I'm not going to shoot a human being unless I feel that human being is a clear and present immediate danger. And these

spk_1:   19:11
air not hunting guns.

spk_0:   19:12
Yeah, Although if I had some geese out there and the Coyotes were trying to get McGee swim, I talk about that. But you know, that's that's basically not its mission. And I find challenging my eyes with scopes when I shoot is a good way to try and train my brain to do the things I want my brain do. Looking through my using my last dominant I'm or so I shoot with iron sights a lot even though I like scopes because it's better brain training and I intend to shoot without the magnifier most of the time, even though I like it because it's better training. It's really easy to go from the harder target acquisition to the Easier Dog Attack acquisition. It's much more challenging to go the other way around. So try and train it under more challenging conditions than I want to use it under. I'm yawning Snowman. I started the board. Whoa. How should I know?

spk_1:   20:22
No, it's another one more thing about the optics in training. I like optics, but it don't generally like to shoot on the range with them as much, simply because I find it more challenging to shoot open sight and I find it. It does more for my shooting ability to shoot open sight. It's I find it better training to shoot open. To be fair, I do a lot of my shooting on the range with a handgun. Now we could talk briefly about hand gun sights. I have one gun, but I have a, uh, red dot on, and, uh, it's just it's ah, it's a target gun and I I play with it from time to time. But we do not have any optics on our regular real actual prepping guns at all. And we've never We're just not a fan of it. Did you like the six hour Juliet? I believe, actually, I was a Romeo hanging outside that you were using the other day.

spk_0:   21:35
I think that sites on a handgun are a lot like the local expression of tits on a boar. Pointless because I'm not trying to use a handgun to shoot it, something so far away that I need sights to help me visualize it.

spk_1:   21:50
And I don't think the quick acquisition is just any quicker. I just don't find it quicker to me to be quick acquisition. I don't find it is accurate and, you know, you get into that I get it needs to be exactly center, or it's not quite as accurate me personally. I like either high resolution, high glow, regular iron sights or even better, I like night sights with Trillium.

spk_0:   22:17
Yeah, I like those.

spk_1:   22:18
I'm a big fan of the treaty. Um, my

spk_0:   22:20
And by the way, guys, In case you haven't noticed, I have had occasions at night when I'm either out of cabin by myself. Okay? I was out of the cabin by myself on all of wakened at two o'clock in the morning by this horrible thumping and screeching and pounding right on my porch of the cabin. And, uh, I'm wide awake now, and even though there's no ambient light that doesn't come from stars or moon out there, you don't see anything else. It was very easy to Theo. Find my Glock there because of the treaty. Um, sites wide it up enough so you know exactly where to put your hand. So it's very easy to lay your hand on the handgun at night by using the treaty, um, sites as a guide. So it was very easy to, uh, get that to hand when I wanted it, But I did not actually shoot the raccoons who were having sex on my front board, much as I might have been tempted at that particular moment. Really? You've got 25 acres of woods out here, and you had to do it here. Uh, but you know the treaty insights help you find it and get your hand in the right place very quickly and easily in the dark tonight too.

spk_1:   23:41
I'm just leaving that one alone. I'm just leaving. That one clearly alone is a G rated podcast that was getting left alone. No, Uh, so, yeah, uh, I like optics, but I'm a big fan of quick acquisition for quick acquisition guns. Now, if you're if you're talking about your firearm is gonna be a you anticipated being a 102 100 to 300 yard type situation. If that's what you're main set up is yes, absolutely. Get you in up to nine power scope. Or if you think it's gonna be 203 100 yards, those dogs with the, um, with the treaty, um, power Reddick ALS are just the bomb, and they do make red dot lookalike copies of them. Not a big fan. Okay, just not a big I've

spk_0:   24:45
got one pro tip before we go, though,

spk_1:   24:47
the house approved.

spk_0:   24:48
When you have those handguns with iron sights and they're made of dark metal, it could be fiendishly hard to get those iron sights lined up in dim light conditions or when your target is dark. But if you take a little white fingernail polish and clean the site of the sites facing you both front and back with a little rubbing alcohol or acetone on a Q tip or something to get the gun oil. I certainly hope you have on your gun cleaned off nice. You take just a little bit of that white fingernail polish and put it on the two posts of the backside and the post to the front sight. It's much easier to line up on a dark target.

spk_1:   25:39
In fact, we've got we've got a gun that's just getting ready to get

spk_0:   25:42
Yeah, that's what brought it to mind. Yeah, we decided to do that to one of his today. And it's out on my painting desk where I among my paints for my hobby projects. I keep my fingernail polish, whose sole job is to paint sides of guns.

spk_1:   25:59
So, yeah, we're gonna review that. And we've done that to other guns that really, really helps and, you know, worst case it. Where's your feet? Nail polish? You know, you could paint a lot of guns with one bottle of nail polish. I want nail polish. Cost quite a couple bucks. Yeah, yeah. So there were okay. We hope you enjoyed optics. At least an overview. A little quick look and we'll catch up next time